Vinye quettar eténier, ar úvie...

Atwe's picture
Submitted by Atwe on Fri, 2007-06-22 19:13.

Well, VT49 is here, and what a goldmine it is. New and exciting concepts, words, paradigms, long-missing expressions. Practically purely Quenya, maybe the next issue will feature more Sindarin again...
No doubt also others who frequent this board receive it soon and we can discuss the possibilities, implications, variations and suppositions.


Submitted by Atwe on Fri, 2007-07-06 10:12.

VT49:14 gives us the sentence _hríve ūva vēna_ which is translated by Tolkien as "winter is drawing near (to us)".
The editors do not analyse _vēna_. It certainly looks like an allative, and I wonder what the underlying stem *vē- might represent. It is probably the same as the Pl 1b form _wé_ » _vé_ given on p51; interesting though that the allative of _lyé_ given in the same chart seems to be _lyenna_ (cf. _nai elen siluva lyenna_) whereas here we get _vēna_ instead of *venna (but of course we should not expect a symmetry everywhere).
It is also interesting to see another example of a static verb "be imminent" with an allative, like in Namárie.

A ruce, Orqui! Ūvan!

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Submitted by Atwe on Fri, 2007-07-06 12:38.

Erratum: of course the -na ending is a dative one, as the editorial note in VT confirms. So actually there is nothing surprising in having lyenna and véna side by side.

Much ado about nothing:)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Submitted by Atwe on Thu, 2007-07-05 13:20.

The fact that the noun remains uninflected for number before _atta_ and that this is a remainder of an Old Quenya dual forms has interestingly some faint echoes in Hungarian. It is customary (although this usage is fading) in Hungarian to refer to dual body organs (hands, feet, ears etc.) in singular and this is said to be a relic of an ancient dual; thus a one-eyed man in Hungarian is "félszemű", i.e. literally "half-eyed" as the pair of eyes constitute a whole... (btw in Hungarian the noun remains singular after all numerals).

And of course in Slavic langauges the noun is in sg genitive after 2-3-4 and pl genitive from 5 on, so there is another paralel, Tolkien has managed to give us a nice mixture again:)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Submitted by Atwe on Wed, 2007-07-04 11:09.

Hm, after all it is nice that one can now write such nice sentences as

Vanima aure né. Roa atta lapsanekset arni nu i alda. :)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Submitted by Aran on Wed, 2007-07-04 19:23.

Yá hríve tene, ringa ná
Nó laire sí - yé mána ma!

:-)

Submitted by oreramar on Wed, 2007-07-04 18:27.

error

Submitted by oreramar on Wed, 2007-07-04 18:25.

Ve senya, ehéntentiel máre engwi, epetai ekuva len tece linwele anvanima.

Submitted by oreramar on Sun, 2007-07-01 13:24.

I was so lucky to receive mine the day before leaving on a tramping holiday. It provided enjoyable lecture in my soaken tent :)

Page 23 gives the sentence "yá hríve tene..." - when winter arrives... Could this be the same yá as ya (2) in the wordlist glossed "as" (VT43)? (Although it is said there that it was probabley abandoned in favor of síve and síve is a comparison). As I do not have VT43, I do not know in what context _ya_ "as" was used.

BTW, I loved Tolkien's solution in AS3 page 6 (...ve fírimor quetir)when he realized that "ambidextrous" in his conception of the Eldar did not work.

Submitted by Atwe on Sun, 2007-07-01 18:04.

Átaremma IIb and III have _ya(n)_, III has _san cemende ya menelde na_.

I also liked that it is finally clear that Quenya also has _nor-_ "run", not only Sindarin, since we have _norima_ "swift" attested in VT49.

And we have conditional sentences! Isn't that great. Just one step from conditional/optative - maybe in the next edition we get even that?:)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

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