I will have to find something to replace rihta-... I need a transitive sense, since it's the monsters' stirring that shook the ground.

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

I do not think that rihta- has to be replaced - see my answer to Aran and PE17:63. If orta- is to be the example, then on page 63 you have a causative (make lift) and that has a past tense ortane (she made her hands rise or simply transitive - she rised her hands). On page 64, orya - and orta- are called intransitive with a past tense for orta- that differs from orta- causative. It rose (intransitive) would be orontes, or it jerked - rihintes.

It does not necessarily take the stirring of the monsters to make this verb here a causative, even if the monsters had made the earth jerk that would be a causative, because in this sentence obviously the earth does not move by itself.

But what is the difference between the two intransitives orya-/orta-?

What you say can be true if I put the monsters' stirring into instrumental, which I can do, of course.
From the gloss of _rihta-_ in Etym "jerk, give quick twist or move, twitch" it seems to be inherently intransitive, and the noun derived from it (_rinke_ "quick stroke of pen, flourish" is certainly not "violent" enough for the sense I am pursuing in this poem).

I think I will either settle on one of the verbs meaning "heave" from Markirya, either amorta- (here, interestingly, an intransitive) or rúma-.

So something like:

uruisi lananter menello
i raukar. Ulundoron coirenen
i kemen amortane.

BTW, I would like

*amortane i kém

much better, but I know Aran would protest :-)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

>but I know Aran would protest :-)

Sure thing. ;-)
But you still use amortane. Shouldn't it be *amoronte or do you think that Tolkien means any adverbial phrase when he speaks of 'object' (allative tentane numenna (VT49:23), here instr. coirenen)?

Reading the referenced note in VT49 I must conclude that indeed _oronte_ would be the correct form; although _coirenen_ is a grammatical object of the verb I somehow doubt that Tolkien intended it that way, I reckon his usage of "object" there refers to an object in sense, i.e. the thing pointed at or the direction pointed towards.

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

OTOH, "was pointed away from Melkor" is also seems to be expressed with the transitive form, the noun in ablative being the object of the verb, so perhaps coirenen ... amortane is correct after all.

Not easy, this one.

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

I think "amortane" is not only correct, but also that there is no need for an instrumental in coire.

PE17:63 says that _orta-_ is a causative of "lift (raise)" with p.t. _ortane_. A causative is a verb construction that uses "get, have or make" to indicate that someone causes someone to do something - here obviously as specified on page 204 "make to rise". So _orta-_ can be used in a transitive sense (...máryat Elentári ortane... which can be translated "she raised her hands, or she made her hands rise") "ulundoron coire amortane", the stirring of the monsters made heave....

PE17:64 says _orta-_ can be intransitive, therefore "rise" (something rises itself (oron oronte hellenna- the moutain rose into the sky e.g.)

VT49:23 _tenta-_ , given the two examples of _orta-_ in PE17, I do not agree with the conclusion in VT49:23 that _tentane_ is intransitive and tenante might be transitive. I believe it is the other way round.
PE17:187 gives the stem TEN- "direction". Therefore basically the verb means "make direction, aim at something, indicate, point at (and point at etymologically means indicate with the finger)" and indicate is, at least in English, a transitive verb (indicate the West = direct object that happens to be an allative in Quenya). And in Tolkien's example, it is the left hand that points (with the finger).
If _tenante_ is intransitive, as I believe, it might mean something like "to face" - face a direction would indeed be intransitive in English. Maybe Tolkien had intended _tenantente_ for "they faced" before opting for _mo querne immo_ for more clarity - just a wild guess :)

I am not sure about this - "face a direction" for me is a distinctly transitive sense (the vern has a direct object, after all).

Having said that I also do not agree with the conclusion in VT49:23 that "tenta ... is used intransitively in line 4"; Tolkien's usage ("the left hand pointed") can be a perfectly good transitive, with the following adverbial phrase being the object.

I realize that I chose a bad wording. What I meant is that _tenante_ if intransitive, means of course "to point oneself" towards something. I see here the same use as with _orta-_ (raise vs rise) - (point yourself or point with something towards..). One would in English translate this by facing.
In English certain expressions with "to face" are intransitive. See Webster dict.

OK, so in summary:

_tenanten númenna_ I was facing westwards
_tentanen mánya númenna_ I pointed with my hand westwards
_mánya tentane númenna_ my hand pointed westwards

Is this what you mean?

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Yes, that is the way I see it :)

This whole new past tense stuff (surely it will take a while for me to remember to use the correct pa.t. conjugation in all cases) raises some interesting questions, like with _ista-_ which is classified as intransitive in Etym, and indeed the pa.t. is _sinte_; but from Notes to Ósanwe-kenta (IIRC) we know that _ista_ is also used as an auxiliary with clearly a transitive sense (know how to do sg), so presumably the pa.t. of the auxiliary _ista-_ would be *istane?

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

True! One must remember to check his PE17 copy these days.

But what about *lantaner then? *lananyer? :-) (just joking) and oloiyaner? *oloinyer?

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

Well, there's another pattern where the whole ending is replaced, as tenya > tenne (VT49:24). So I would put my bet on *oloine.
A similar case to lanta is tenta (VT49:23) which forms the past tenses tenante ('direct toward, be directed toward') and tentane ('with object = go forth towards'). That would make it intr. *lanante.
On the other hand it may be significant that the stem is DANT- in Etym and DAN-TA in PE17, with the verbal suffix actually being a part of it. So maybe still weak *lantane.

According PE17:63,64, I understand here richta- as an intransitive with -ta in a causative sense like the verb orta- on page 63 (the stirring of the monsters made the earth move)and therefore with a past tense rihtane. In a sentence like : I give a jerk to something (and not something I do causes something else to jerk) would be rikinte.

to you both: it's rihta- not richta-:) nicht richtig:)

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

>nicht richtig:)

Ach! :-o :-)

Gosh, where was my head when I was writing this piece???

for ulumbe read undume, for uruive read uruite

my sincere apologies...

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sí tere hyelle ar nullave cenilve

I started suspecting you of having a secret wordlist :)