Roitan Súrë

Submitted by Katie on Tue, 2006-02-28 00:08.

This is my first real attempt at writing a rhyming Quenya poem of any significant length. Here is an interlinear translation, with numbered lines for easier viewing. Thank you for reading, and I hope you enjoy.

Roitan Súrë
I Chase the Wind

1) Hyarmenenna ar san Formenenna vor
1) Hyarmenna ar oä san Formenna vor
Ever to the South and then away to the North
2) Sin ná tië taura súriva
This is the path of the mighty wind
3) Ca sa rinderyassë lelyan as neuror
Behind it on its circle I travel with the followers
4) An nás ná ambarinya sa roita
For it is my fate to chase it

5) Yáressë mányatsë harmar vanimë
Once beautiful treasures in my hands
6) Ar nolw’ endanyassë yá hempen
And formerly wisdom in my heart I held
7) Mal súrë ya hilyan *entë palpanë
But the wind which I follow battered even them
8) Tenn’ ai! *nentë vanwë niquenen
Until alas! they were lost by the coldness

9) Ilqua lúmessë
Everything in an hour
10) *Né pílina
Was stolen
11) Vor remmaryassë
Ever in its snare
12) *Nén *Nen eresseä
I was alone

13) Súrill’ oä merin lelya anwavë
Away from the wind I truly want to travel
14) Mal ai! massë nauvan san ú so?
But alas! where then will I be without it?
15) Man tuluva etelehta ni nye tárë?
Who will come to deliver me in that day?
16) Man tulyuva san ni nye et huillo huinëo?
Who then will lead me from the murk?

17) Lemyuvan as sa
I will remain with it
18) Lá autuvan
I will not leave
19) Lá polin hehta
I cannot abandon
20) Er nat ya hanyan
The only thing which I understand

21) Restassen ter otso yéni mótanen
In the fields through seven years I toiled
22) Ar marnen nu Anar ve laman
And under the sun I abided like an animal
23) Nat titt’ alassenyan anwa, sananen
A small thing for my true happiness, I thought
24) An rato mírenya haryuvan
For soon I will possess my jewel

25) Mal vasarerya
But its veil
26) San lantanë
Then fell
27) Hirnen er hwesta
I found only a breath of air
28) Ya avánië
Which has vanished

29) Ar as hwesta estelinya er lendë
And with the breath of air went my only hope
30) An otso yéninyar *ner muntan
For my seven years were for nothing
31) Ma mótuvan lúmi únótim’ exë?
Will I toil other uncountable hours?
32) Ma oialë súrë roituvan?
Will I forever chase the wind?

33) En! autas ata
Look! again it goes away
34) Ho sinomë
From here
34) Mir yúcalë
Into the twilight
35) Ar hilyuvan sa
And I will follow it
36) Roituvan súrë
I will chase the wind
37) Sí namárië...
Now farewell...

38) Hyarmenenna ar san Formenenna vor
38) Hyarmenna ar oä san Formenna vor
Ever to the South and then away to the North
39) Sin ná tië taura súriva
This is the path of the mighty wind
40) Ca sa rinderyassë lelyan as neuror
Behind it on its circle I travel with the followers
4) An nás ná ambarinya sa roita
For it is my fate to chase it

Submitted by Katie on Sun, 2006-03-05 22:26.

Petri has kindly pointed out a few other things that could use improvement. Therefore, in lines 15 and 16, I have changed _ni_ to _nye_ for the object case. Also, apparantly _huillo_ does not work well with Quenya phonology, so I have changed _et huillo_ to _huinëo_ in line 16, following the same pattern as _Oiolossëo_ from Namárië.
It has also been suggested to me that _*nén_ should be changed to _*nen_ in line 12, which I have now done.

Submitted by Bob Powers on Fri, 2006-03-03 22:36.

Katie,
-
I'll start with praise for the author, I love it! It's got great tone, forlorned, yet almost exciting. The author obviously loaths the wind, yet loves the chase, and though it swept all the treasures of your life away, you still soldier on! Very good!
-
Quenya suggestions :
-
2)/39)I beleive _sin_ is 'now', _sina_ would be 'this', right?
-
6)I can't find *hempe, where is it listed?
-
8)_Nique_ is a verb, you used it as a noun, I'm not sure if this is OK.
-
10)I've never heard piilina, where is it found? *pil?
-
16)_hui_ can cover 'murk' itself, *huillo 'from the murk'? _et_ covers 'out of', so possibly just eliminate _et_ for the sake of rhyme, as well as it's redundancy, 'out of from the murk'?
-
23)I'm not sure _sana_ is a verb, perhaps you could use *istanen, 'I know' with a comma.
-
24)If you use *istanen, then don't use _An_, but you don't have to.
-
Poem suggestions (you don't have to listen to these!) :
-
I don't mark my texts with *'s as a rule so as to keep the text running smoothly, though I do add a note in the post-script with numbered references simply for sticklers like Atwe ;)!
-
In general, just if you come across it, the suffix _-s_ meaning 'he/she/it' may be unnecessary in poetry. Use it or con't based on metre, not obligation. I don't know if you knew this or not.
-
5) for the English translation, 'were' could be understood, thus *Once beautiful treasures (were) in my hands* for the ease of the English reader, though it makes little difference to the Quenya.
-
37) perhaps for metre, this verse should be moved, maybe do it last (as I always seem to) to end it on a sorrowful note, or simply add it to verse 36, thus *Roituvan suure sii, namaarie* (I will chase the wind now, farewell...) though you don't HAVE to do either of these.
-
I really enjoyed it, and it had a good rhyming sceme. I was surprised I could follow it as well as I was able, since I'm hardly what can be considered "fluent". Let me know when and if it is "finalized".
-
Bob Powers
-
Melme ná anna, á antas.

Submitted by Katie on Sun, 2006-03-05 05:56.

I think most of your grammatical comments have been covered in other replies, so I thought I'd take a look at some of the others.

5) The beautiful treasures are actually one of the things that the speaker once held, as the verb for held can be found in the next line.

37) The reason I chose to begin and end with the same stanza is due to the message of the poem. The speaker is caught in a vicious circle, always chasing the wind and never gaining anything on his journey. It is as if on his travels he has stopped for a brief moment to tell his story, but then sees the wind moving off again and must follow it. In the end, he is in exactly the same position he began in as he continues to chase the wind.

Thank you to everyone for your comments. They are greatly appreciated.

Submitted by Bob Powers on Sun, 2006-03-05 23:05.

Katie,
I understand the structure you were looking for, I just thought it was odd that you choose to have verse 37 where it is, so I made a few suggestions, nothing that you have to change, just stuff I thought might fit your scheme better, though it is your scheme and therefore your choice. Thanks for giving my comments the merit of a response.
Bob Powers
PS I have also been informed that you were indeed correct in the "et ...-llo", this could be my mistake, but you may want to make sure before you change it for my suggestion or back to your original. Sorry.
Melme ná anna, á antas.

Submitted by oreramar on Sat, 2006-03-04 22:44.

Sin = independent pronoun meaning thus or this and not demonstrative pronoun. Sin ná ... this is the path = correct / sina would be = this path

hempe = hep- keep hold,retain to be found in the new words list

niquë is both verb and noun

sana- "think"; verb isolated from sanar "mind (new words list)

Submitted by Bob Powers on Sat, 2006-03-04 23:31.

Oreramar,
Thanks for clearing those up, but do you know where piilina (I would guess *pil-) comes from, I looked through some lists and couldn't find it (not saying that makes it wrong, just that I can't find it)?
Bob Powers
Melme ná anna, á antas.

Submitted by oreramar on Sun, 2006-03-05 11:21.

Took me some time to find it. It is from Qenya PILI(1) rob, pili- = steal (PE 12)

Submitted by Katie on Sun, 2006-03-05 05:21.

*_pil_ is actually _pili-_, meaning "to steal," and is found in the Qenya Lexicon. Here it is in the singular passive participle form _pílina_ (if the verb had been _pil-_, the passive participle form would be _pilda_)

Thank you very much for the compliments. :)

Submitted by Aran on Sun, 2006-03-05 19:22.

An alternative for 'to steal' without a need to take a Qenya word can be _mapa-_ 'grasp, seize' (Etym) - the stem MAP- had been glossed 'take away, seize, take hold of, grasp' at different times (VT47:20), but always remained more or less the same.

Submitted by Atwe on Sat, 2006-03-04 12:02.

_et_ plus ablative case conveys "out of", cf. _Et earello Endorenna utúlien._

-----
my blog: footprints

Submitted by Bob Powers on Sat, 2006-03-04 21:28.

Atwe,
Thanks, that's my mistake. Your right Katie.
Bob Powers
Melme ná anna, á antas.

Submitted by Atwe on Wed, 2006-03-01 11:27.

You've asterisked *ente, you should've done the same with *né, *nente, etc.:)
I am uncomfortable with using _sa_ for 'it', but that's just me. I think this 3rd person independent pronoun thing is not very clear yet.

_ho_ as 'from' in _ho sinome_ doesn't seem to fit, I mean the meaning, this _ho_ IMHO is rather "from among" (old partitive)? *sinomello maybe?

-----
my blog: footprints

Submitted by Katie on Thu, 2006-03-02 03:03.

I realize that _ho_ is rather awkward and that one would normally use _sinomello_ for "from/out of here." I originally used _ho_ because a) I need a four-syllable line with the primary stress on the second syllable and b) I need to rhyme with -e. However, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a decent substitution for _ho sinomë_ if it is out of place.

I also know that the use of _sa_ is somewhat shaky. However, I'm not sure how I could possibly work around the need for an independent word for "it" in this situation, and _sa_ seems to be the most likely suggestion, if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks again to Oreramar and Atwe for your helpful comments. I will tweak accordingly.

Submitted by Atwe on Thu, 2006-03-02 08:10.

I agree, that _sa_ at least has some attestedness, although not independently IIRC (_ósa_, _imsa_), and to use it is a possible solution. I am just chasing alternatives; e.g., we could use _ca, cata, cana_ adverbially (after all it is glossed 'behind, at back of place'), e.g. *cana, rinderyasse... = 'behind, on its circle...'; or to use *tellesse 'in the rear', but that might be too long for your purposes.

Also it seems from Ã?taremma, that it is possible to stick objest suffixes to aorist stems (_apsenet_ 'forgive them'), so _sa roita_ seems to be also possible as *roitas.

-----
my blog: footprints

Submitted by Katie on Sun, 2006-03-05 05:40.

_cana, rinderyasse_ would work except for the fact that this would place the main stress on the second syllable of _cana_, which, of course, is incorrect. However, it is actually quite a good idea, and I hadn't thought of it before.

_roitas_ certainly seems like it could be a possible alternative to _sa roita_. However, _an ná ambarinya roitas_ could perhaps be confusing to some, or it could be more easily misread as something like "for it is my fate it chases." I thought perhaps _sa_ would give it greater clarity, since normally _-s_ is used as a subject suffix (not to mention the fact that _sa_ fits in better with my meter and rhyme scheme, of course). ;)

Thank you for the suggestions, though. They will probably come in handy in the future.

Submitted by Aran on Thu, 2006-03-02 17:08.

Furthermore, Quenya would leave out the third person ending in a phrase like 'it is my fate', where this 'it' doesn't refer to any specific person or agent - e.g. in Fíriel's Song _úva fárea_ 'it won't be enough', not _**úvas fárea_.

Submitted by oreramar on Tue, 2006-02-28 21:59.

I think the allative should be added without connecting vowel, final "n" merging with -nna : Hyarmenna and Formenna, see Rómenna.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.