Handles
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How would you call handles of objects like pots, mugs, pans etc. in Quenya?
I am (of course) inclined to go for the "ear(s)" metaphor as we do in Hungarian and call them hlas/hlari - this seems to be also in line with the idea behind unquilla(r).
P.S. there is also tolma, but that looks like specifically a rounded and short knob.
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I like the “ear” idea, since…
I like the “ear” idea, since there’s and established precedent in Early Quenya.
We might also restore the early root UNKWU as “hook, handle, loop”, but there is a risk of confusion with derivatives of UNUK, so I don’t favor this option. Using SLAS feels like a better idea to me.
I will have to mull over the form, though.
In reply to I like the “ear” idea, since… by Paul Strack
Since unquilla might show…
Since unquilla might show the diminutive suffix -lla, what about SLASi(n)kĭ > *hlarice, *hlarince?
Unfortunately this would not work in Sindarin.
In reply to Since unquilla might show… by Shihali
I'd say Tolkien expressed…
I'd say Tolkien expressed clear enough that in the Welsh-like language, "ear" and "loop-shaped handle" are one and the same word.
Alternately ... we could…
Alternately ... we could restore EQ. unko or unqilla and G. unc for “handle”, but re-etymologize them from UNUK, perhaps based on the hollow area between the handle and the pot. That fits my personal style of salvaging early words where I can.
"Grab" vs. "hold" etc.
(At least with the example root) MAP, > CE *map-mā/-mē̆n instead of *map-wā/-wō/-wē̆n (as with NID), presumably. (Is -p+w- indeed a no-no in Quenya? Better make sure by looking at Eldamo's phonology pages once again.)
Compare https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-164411103.html.
Alternatively a derivative with CE *-zē/-sē/-dē ( : taxë)?
In reply to "Grab" vs. "hold" etc. by S P
even if...
Even if we stick to the "ear" metaphor for handles on vessels, *map-mā could still be handy (no pun intended) for either a more generic "handle", or as an instrument for grabbing something (like a forceps).
In reply to "Grab" vs. "hold" etc. by S P
pw > pp
According to this rule
[w̥] after [p] became [p]; [p{ww̥}] > [pp]so I guess map-mā would yield *mappa (or *mamma?) Cf. also nappa/namma
In reply to pw > pp by Atwe
/p+w/ and /p+m/
In light of the info that I've found so far:
/p+w/ > /pp/ (based on your Eldamo quote)
/p+m/ > /mp/ (based on GAP[*-mā] > Q ampa, Etym:357)
In Adûnaic, one should be able to form the word *uhzun "an ear-shaped figure" — since the paragon-pattern igmil is about a form, one would assume the resulting nouns to be also applicable to tangible things.
In reply to /p+w/ and /p+m/ by S P
*uhzun
The idea to base the word on igmil is a clever one, but I am lost where you got *uhzun from, please can you explain? My Adúnaic is beyond rusty.
In reply to *uhzun by Atwe
Re: *uhzun
From #HUZ'N with the obvious assumption about both vowels in an igmil-derivative (hence *uhzun, not *(?)ihzun); cp. SD:427.
In reply to Re: *uhzun by S P
blind
Thank you - I trawled through the Ad. wordlist yesterday and did not spot huzun... must've gone blind temporarily.
In reply to /p+w/ and /p+m/ by S P
moreover
Then there's also this rule:
AQ. [n], [m] after voiceless stops became [t], [w]; [{ptk}{nm}] > [{ptk}{tw}]So I don't know...