Of Rían
I wanted to dabble a bit with some prose translation so I chose the first few paragraphs from Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin from UT. Please give comments and suggestions, some of the expressions were not easy to translate...
Rían, wife of Huor, dwelt with the people of the House of Hador; but when rumour came to Dor-lómin of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and yet she could hear no news of her lord, she became distraught and wandered forth into the wild alone. There she would have perished, but the Grey-elves came to her aid. For there was a dwelling of this people in the mountains westward of Lake Mithrim; and thither they led her, and she was there delivered of a son before the end of the Year of Lamentation.
And Rían said to the Elves: "Let him be called Tuor, for that name his father chose, ere war came between us. And I beg of you to foster him, and to keep him hidden in your care; for I forebode that great good, for Elves and Men, shall come from him. But I must go in search of Huor, my lord."
Then the Elves pitied her; but one Annael, who alone of all that went to war from that people had returned from the Nirnaeth, said to her: "Alas, lady, it is known now that Huor fell at the side of Húrin his brother; and he lies, I deem, in the great hill of slain that the Orcs have raised upon the field of battle."
Therefore Rían arose and left the dwelling of the Elves, and she passed through the land of Mithrim and came at last to the Haudhen-Ndengin in the waste of Anfauglith, and there she laid her down and died. But the Elves cared for the infant son of Huor, and Tuor grew up among them; and he was fair of face, and golden-haired after the manner of his father's kin, and he became strong and tall and valiant, and being fostered by the Elves he had lore and skill no less than the princes of the Edain, ere ruin came upon the North.
Rían Huoro vesse máre le Hataro nosse; mal quie lussa méne Norlóminna Unótime Nainiéron ar ananta la mentar heruyo camnes, virinyes loica tá rananyes rávassenna eresse. Tá quíta firumnes, mal i Sindar túler ar asanyer se. An sine atanion már nesse imbi oronti Númenna Ringweo Sindaron; ar tar tulunyentes ar tá nesse nése antaina yondonen nó i Nainiéva Yéno mettare.
Tá Rían quente Eldannar: "Na esseya Tuor, an ta ataryo náme né nó ohta met yúyo nehtane i hyello. Ar arcean lye alyuvar se ar hapuvar se muina asieldasse; an apacennen almie tuluva sénen Eldain ar Atanín. Mal nin mauya kesya Huor, herunya."
Tá i Eldar óráver ósesse, mal Annael, ye erinqua ion i nosseo ohtanna eménier entulle i Nienainiello, quente senna: "Ai, héri, sína ná Huor nahtienwa ara toronyo Húrin; ar namin caitas i mí haura hahta nahtanion i Orcor ortaner ohtanómesse."
Epetai Rían oronye ar oante i Eldamar, ar méne tere Sindanórie ar yallume tulle i Hahtanna Nahtanion mí rávasse Andafaukalitseo, tá keante ar effíre. Mal i Eldar alanyer Huoro vinimo yondo, ar Tuor alane imíca te; ar alima nés ar vána váve ataryo nosse, ar alanes polda, tára ar canya, ar Eldainen alyaina samnes nóle ar fíne vávea Atanion cundur, nó Formen atalante.
8 Apr 2008., continuing the translation...
But with the passing of the years the life of the former folk of Hithlum, such as still remained. Elves or Men, became ever harder and more perilous. For as is elsewhere told, Morgoth broke his pledges to the Easterlings that had served him, and he denied to them the rich lands of Beleriand which they had coveted, and be drove away these evil folk into Hithlum, and there commanded them to dwell. And though they loved Morgoth no longer, they served him still in fear, and hated all the Elven-folk; and they despised the remnant of the House of Hador (the aged and women and children, for the most part), and they oppressed them, and wedded their women by force, and took their lands and goods, and enslaved their children. Orcs came and went about the land as they would, pursuing the lingering Elves into the fastnesses of the mountains, and taking many captive to the mines of Angband to labour as the thralls of Morgoth.
Therefore Annael led his small people to the caves of Androth, and there they lived a hard and wary life, until Tuor was sixteen years of age and was become strong and able to wield arms, the axe and bow of the Grey-elves; and his heart grew hot within him at the tale of the griefs of his people, and he wished to go forth and avenge them on the Orcs and Easterlings. But Annael forbade this.
"Far hence, I deem, your doom lies, Tuor son of Huor," he said. "And this land shall not be freed from the shadow of Morgoth until Thangorodrim itself be overthrown. Therefore we are resolved at last to forsake it, and to depart into the South; and with us you shall go."
Mal ve yéni váner, Hísilómeo yalúmea nosseva - i er lemenyer, Eldaiva hya Ataníva - cuile virinye ambe hranga yo raxea. An ve hyana nomesse nyarna, Morinotto terhante vandaya Rónatanín i sé hilinyer, ar avane tien Valariando alye nóri i mernente, ar nirne sina olca lie Hísilómenna ar cáne te tasse marien. Ar sí quíta ambe lá melenyente Morinotto, ananta Þossenen hilinyentes ar yelantente ilye Eldar; ar nattirnente Hataro Nosseo lemba (i linyenwar yo nissi ta híni, minyave), ar nahanentet ar vestanente nissentar nirmenen, ar mapantente yondentar yo armantar ar mampente hínantar. Orcor rananyer tere i nóre ve merner, roitaner i lemyala Eldali i orontíve artar, ar mapanter rimbe ve móli Morinottova Angamando rottossen mótien.
Potai Annael tulanye pia nosseya Andarotto felyannar, ar tasse *vehtaner urdave ar antirie, tenna Tuoren coranari eneque náner ar polda anes ar póle mahta carmar, i pelecco ar i cú Sindaron; ar endaya uryane nyarnanen nosseyo nairion, ar mínane lenweta ar ahtare rá te pa i Orcor ar Rónatani. Mal Annael váquentes.
"Vaháya, namin, umbartelya ea, Tuor Huoryon", eques. "Ar sina nóre úva etelehtana Morinotto huinello tenna Sangoronti inte lantuvar. Tó yallume tance namme hehta sa ar lenweta Hyarmenna; ar elye asemme lelyuva."
Comments
Atwe:
I have added a new paragraph. In it there is a phrase "to ... avenge them on the Orcs".
Now PE17:166 provides us with the verbs _akkar-_/_ahtar-_ "do back, react; requite; avenge" (and, based on the meaning of the root TŌ-/OT(O)-, possibly also *tókar-), what I am not sure is how to manage the direct and indirect objects.
In English, avenge has the person for whom the action is done as a direct object and the person who is the sufferer of the action as an indirect (with the prep. "on" and objective case).
In Hungarian, there is a transitive verb (_megbosszul_) where the beneficiary is the direct object (but then there is no sufferer) and there is a phrasal verb (_bosszút áll_, cca. "take vengeance") where the beneficiary is in a causal-final case and the sufferer is in adessive.
In Q, I could imagine the beneficiary to be in dative or in causal-final (with preposition _rá_) and the sufferer to receive the preposition _pa_ (as I used above) or perhaps in simple locative.
Any thoughts?
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
oreramar:
Your solution of _rá_ and _pa_ is easily understood. I would not use a locative here, rather an allative or dative if _pa_ had to be replaced. I would have used probably the allative, as a counterpart to the ablative of _avatyar-_ "forgive" where Tolkien has "cause/ do away from" although one would expect the sufferer to be a direct object when simply translated from English.
Atwe:
Dative would only work for me for the beneficiary: ahtáren lyen "I took revenge for you". Allative might work for the object suffering the avenge.
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
Atwe:
I have added another paragraph (and will continue to do so) - any further comments or suggestions are welcome as usual!
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
Atwe:
A simple problem: how would you express someone's age? "Tuor was sixteen years old"...
Tuoren coranari eneque náner?
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
Aran:
My idea was almost the same: coranári(on) enenque avánier Tuoren which I think really sounds neutral and acceptable in languages that would usually specify age by a specific idiom.
Atwe:
I like that - thanks.
Hm - "how old are you?" *ma linyenwa elye? *ma yára lye? (In Hungarian we say "how many years old are you" literally we use an adjectival form of _év_ "year", but how does one say "how many" in NeoQuenya? *mali?
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
admin:
.. for which any better suggestions are welcome:
- became distraught: *virinyes loica (I am not very happy with it, I admit)
- she delivered a son: *nése antaina yondonen (still no easy way to express "to be born, to bear a child")
- war came between us: *ohta met nehtane (I wanted to add "[from] each other" but dunno how Tolkien would say that, perhaps sg idiomatic like *min hye, *hye hye or the like, or simply _met yúyo_?)
- fell at the side of Húrin his brother: I am of course unsure if the past active participle *nahtienwa "having been slain" works here or is really a past active participle:)
- no less: "more" we now have (_ambe_), but still no sign of "less", "few"!
Atwe:
For "war came between us" I have settled on *ohta met yúyo nehtane i hyello, "war us both deprived of the other".
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
oreramar:
became distraught: maybe something like "his mind wandered" sámarya rananye
she delivered a son : how about "a son was added to her" - yondo né yantyaina sen
admin:
I wanted to avoid ranya- as it is used a moment later in the sentence. But perhaps _sámaya saccante/rance_, although that might be too strong.
oreramar:
I think both of the above verbs, as well as _ascante_ would come close to the meaning of distraught.
Atwe:
I think my version is practically the same: nése antaina yondonen cf. antanenyes parmanen "I presented him with a book", literally "I added/augmented him by a book".
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
oreramar:
Would _indyalme_ or _yalme_ ( clamour - barbarous speech in VT46:3) not be closer to "rumour" than "lussa" here in this context of news about war? The word "rumour" meaning "clamour,
widespread noise, common talk, related to hoarse" (Etym Online).
Atwe:
Yes, thanks, _yalme_ would fit the context as well.
---
Vanesse ale mí óre tirno, ve lóte.
Aran:
Maybe *nurrule? Or just something like 'news' - *sinyar, *vinyar?
'Rumour' is derived in several different ways in different languages, why do we have to calque the English word into Quenya?
admin:
That's why I like _lussa_, it depicts the nature of a gossip, rumour nicely. Or I could simply use _quettar_.
"news" seems to be presemt in several langauges (E news, Pol nowość, H újság etc.) so *vinya, vinyar seem to be a good bet, too.
oreramar:
Then I think it should be _lusse_, lussa- is the verb.